It’s generally held that you can license code that comes from tools and even though this particular example is untested it’s… unlikely that any court would strip the protection of law from companies that use llms as part of their development process.
Tbh you’re better off making a moral or ethical argument.
Transmission wasn’t bound or if bound was going around the port forwarding because it didn’t have the ports configured.
Airvpn doesn’t have that limit if you’re looking to bypass that problem.
Also when you’re ready for it, rtorrent is ready for you.
You might be referring to something else, but we learned mathematical notation in high school.
Do you mean he used Leibniz notation? At the time I was learning calculus teachers would switch between that and whatever didn’t wear out the “d” key willy nilly so it got confusing.
Okay now stop calling names too and you’ll be doing good.
The big difference I notice when I look back at our conversation is that your replies use wildly exaggerated comparisons like pointing a hair dryer or a 100c oven while mine stay rooted in the actual conditions the op describes.
I’d like to refute one that you threw out there earlier using the conditions the op described.
We already know the forumula for conductance is kaTd/l so let’s see what coupling the package of their ssd nand chip to an aluminum heatsink does for that:
Air has a k value of .025 or so. Aluminum has a thermal conductivity of 237. Even with the worst thermal pad or goop imaginable that’s several orders of magnitude better. Just for the sake of completeness, let’s assume the nand chip is about 2cm on a side for an area of 4cm square, we’re only working with a miniscule 20c gradient and we’re measuring one centimeter away. You could pick any numbers you want here for comparison, we’re literally multiplying them all together so it doesn’t matter for the purposes of determining how much of an improvement a heatsink would make.
(.025 x 4 x 20)/1 =2
(237 x 4 x 20)/1 =18,960
That’s a thermal conduction much greater than the 100% improvement you expressed doubt about.
Now will that translate into their ssd reaching absolute zero and levitating the pc a few inches off the desktop as it superconducts SpongeBob futa memes down the bus at near infinite speed? Of course not, but it will be much cooler.
Now let’s compare that math to a fan! Using a fan forces cool air into the system, increasing the temperature gradient. Let’s assume the fan driven air is 80 degrees c cooler than the ssd die.
(.025 x 4 x 80)/1 =8
That’s an improvement but it’s nothing compared to the heatsink.
Now this is obviously a gross oversimplification meant to illustrate the relative importance of coupling to materials with a higher k value as opposed to blowing air across things. If you wanted to pick apart my math you could bring up that I’m comparing bulk conductivity across a block of aluminum as opposed to two dissimilar materials coupled imperfectly by a third material. It would make me actually do the real math for bulk conductivity across a series of different materials and show that while the improvement isn’t over 9000 times better it’s still much, much better — but you could do that.
And to be fair, the k value of a good heatsink acts as a lever that even small increases in temperature gradient can multiply to great effect. Which is why you don’t usually put a fan on something without a heatsink.
The point of this exercise is to make it clear to anyone reading this exchange where each of us is drawing from and how each of us is expressing ourselves. I don’t seek to convince or educate you, but to leave behind a powerful wealth of knowledge that anyone can draw upon in the future.
It signifies that the ssd is in a passively cooled case without a heatsink.
I’d say adding a heatsink to the ssd will drop the idle temperatures down at least ten degrees (more like fifteen or twenty, but it’s important to not overestimate no matter how optimistic someone might be!). During long transfers is where the real benefit comes in, it’s still possible to get the ssd in the 90c zone but it’s gonna take much, much longer because the package will take forever to heat the heatsink up and the heatsink will much more efficiently dump that heat into the air. That flatter curve is gonna be a huge help to the op because most people aren’t running constant data transfers as fast as their equipment can handle them 24/7, 365. It’s likely op is seeing ssds die when they transfer their 200gb futa SpongeBob memes folder and the temperature spikes up into the 90s for a few minutes, not while serving that folder to all their fellow bikini bottom enthusiasts at the 10gbps lan party. A flatter curve keeps the ssd at a safe temperature longer.
It’s possible that the ops combination of pcie version and usbc revision (it’s a 7th or 8th gen intel iirc) can’t even do enough operations to get the heatsinked ssd up into the water messes up your packages seal zone when making transfers onto or off of it. Internal action will still heat it up as fast as possible though because the snappy ssd controller won’t be checking its watch and tapping its foot while some packet takes precious microseconds to come down the bus.
The computer has been fine. It will probably continue to be fine once the op gets a heatsink on their ssd. They did not ask us to help them price out and build a new computer, but to keep their ssds from dying, and not to repeat myself too much but that’s what a heatsink will do.
Now it’s also possible that their power supply is whats periodically killing their disks but the heat is a good first step.
You really gotta ease up. Insults and rudeness couched in flowery language are no shield. If this is your first time on lemmy, people take that kind of stuff much more serious than on Reddit.
There’s uh, also a pretty flagrant degree of classism in your replies that might not go over well on the left wing servers like ml. Just be aware.
I’ll go a step farther: plenty of hardware datasheets offer a reference implementation that uses mit licensed software. At some point you’re not even doing unique data plumbing, you’re just following the instructions on the back of the package of a digital shark bite fitting.
Well some are not actually developers, they’re more like systems integrators who adapt a new component to a well established technology stack using the manufacturers documentation and files.
There’s also a legitimate security and safety argument to being allowed to have closed source. Haters will regurgitate what I was taught thirty years ago, that you can just diff the patch binaries, check the section that changed in a hex editor, cross that to resident memory and reverse engineer what’s going on from that point and bear in mind this was before ghidra, let alone ai, but that’s doing the jetpack backflip through the ring part of the meme as compared to the “look at source, walk across the mat, locate vulnerability, taa-daa” part.
The truth is that there is security in obscurity. If there weren’t we wouldn’t suddenly be seeing so many obscure vulnerabilities getting fixed due to ai scrutiny in the past few years.
Another reason a company might like mit is there isn’t any license wrangling work to do. Someone has to figure out what constraints in what jurisdictions the company’s product is under and what remediation is appropriate. Even if they don’t pay out a lawyer to figure all that out they had to have somebody do it and that costs money in the form of hours of compensated work.
A part no one likes to talk about is the fact that the mit license comes from mit, an institution with long running and deep ties to the intelligence apparatus of the United States and the mit license greasing the skids of adoption would make it a great way to increase uptake of compromised code. Which has never happened. Do not research this statement.
But yeah a lot of them are literally leaching off the commons. If a community doesn’t defend its well someone’s bound to come in and start charging for it.
There is no reason to be aggressive, insulting and confrontational the way you are.
If you can’t make your point without resorting to personal attacks then consider not replying until you’re cooled off.
It’s pretty clear from what I said that I’m referring to the pc still running fine while multiple ssds have died.
From what I can tell the other components the op references are: the WiFi module. Unfortunately radio baseband chips were well into their implementation without any kind of heat mitigation era when this pc was manufactured. That’s another part that could likely benefit from sticking a heatsink on, lots of desktop motherboards and even some laptops have some kind of heatsink or pad coupling the radio to the chassis. Probably glue a nut to that too, straighten it right out. Radio is even more duty cycle dependent than ssds due to the nature of ip communication. It’s likely what drove thousands of devices to be designed without any way to deal with the heat from those little things. Why spend five times the cost of the chip sticking a sink on there when it’ll just automatically throttle down to protect itself was probably the engineering calculus.
You got a lot of answers that explain why it might be less of a headache for a programmer who uses their output personally & in the office and how being able to sell code they didn’t write benefits anyone selling software but not anything about the social benefits of an mit license.
If you developed a new powerful, secure and ultralight cryptographic algorithm for example, you might consider it a public good to place that code under an mit license so users of open and closed source software from freely distributed or for profit companies could benefit from it with as little friction as possible.
I’m no supporter of mit over gpl, but that argument is not something to be discounted.
Based on what we know about the pc it’s going fine. The pc is still running. Were asked about how to fix a problem with an ssd.
You seem real bent out of shape about this. It’s not a big deal. The op got lots of advice and input, I sent them two links to heatsinks that will most likely fit just fine. Why not just wait and see how things turn out? There’s no need to continue to be insulting and confrontational.
Superglue is ca glue. Ca glue chemically bonds to itself and mechanically bonds to the surfaces it’s put between. I would like to know the kind of glue you are talking about. I never instructed the op to glue a nut to their ssd, however that would be a fine thing to do.
If it’s not clear by now: yes, I believe the problems will be resolved with a heatsink. They asked about how to stop losing ssds in an environment with passive cooling and the answer is a heatsink. Even if I didn’t have a wealth of theoretical knowledge that can simply be regurgitated while on the toilet to people who will not read it, I also have experience dealing with flash memory in sealed, passively cooled and high vibration environments which indicates that conclusion.
Here’s how a heatsink will resolve their problems: the heatsinks huge increase to their nand chips thermal mass will reduce the effect that periodic reads and writes have on its die temperature and the heatsinks much greater surface area and better transfer properties will dump that heat into the ambient air much faster than the surface of their nand chips package will.
Their pc has vents and is designed to rely on passive cooling. Perhaps it will last a long time, perhaps not. Pulling the ol “would that end racism? Would that end sexism?” Is akin in this instance to rushing into the operating theater to disrupt an in progress remediation of gunshot trauma to inform the staff that the persons heart disease is a big deal.
How much distance would you say is there between the ssd top surface and the case panel?
I’m gonna start off with an apology because my flippant tone may have made it seem like I was targeting you when really I’m running on all eight cylinders trying to blast out accurate, useful posts that are fun to read. I’m sorry I hit you with a little friendly fire, that wasn’t my intent.
Working backwards: ca glue doesn’t make a chemical bond with the plastic of a semiconductor package, it creates a solid material out of itself using water that relies on the surface dressing of the stuff it’s being used on for mechanical purchase. That’s why you gotta use sandpaper to rough up stuff you’re trying to glue together first. That also explains why supergluing a nut to an ic doesn’t hold like you’d think it would and in the case of for example the big boy fets and voltage regulators of a video card creates a weaker bond than the solder to the pcb (I was carrying a mining gpu by the bolt glued to the vrm and the glue failed and the card dropped three feet onto concrete).
Removal of ca glue can be easily accomplished with acetone. Be careful using acetone on or around electronics because it will eat certain plastics (the “a” in ca glue stands for acrylic!).
What you do need to be careful with when using ca glue is natural fibers. For reasons I have never felt (see what I did there?) the need to investigate, it reacts with them and can get really hot.
I’m gonna combine the other two sections of what you wrote into one because there’s a misconception there.
Based on the ops own post, the ssd is idling at 67 or so c. We wanna keep it below 90 for [explanation redacted].
That doesn’t mean there is 67c air inside the pc case. That would be crazy. It means the ssd can’t effectively dissipate its heat into the surrounding air at idle until it reaches 67c.
The equation for that is (kATd)/l.
K is the ability for the material to conduct heat, A is the area over which it’s happening, Td is the difference in temperature and it’s all over l, the distance it’s happening across.
Basically every part of that equation is bad numbers when we’re using a bare die into the ambient air.
But why?
Well straight off the bat, air sucks. Heating it up is way harder than heating up for example plastic, water, oil, metal or human skin. That’s why when you run out of heating oil for the furnace and use the coil stove burner to heat the house you can keep your hands cozy by rubbing them over it but get a crazy burn when you put them on the coil. Air is such a bad conductor of heat that the difference between “ahh” and “AUGH!” Is a couple of inches.
But plastics suck too! Remember that the part of the ssd that gets hot is the big ol chip and the part of the chip that gets hot is the silicon die inside it. Plastics are in general so bad at conducting heat that in many cases we use them explicitly for that purpose in industrial engineering. If you’re worried that some parts variable temperature will have an effect on some other part then you can plop a chunk of nylon or something down in between em and suddenly the temperature shifts are good enough for government work!
So the ssd is getting too hot before it can transfer its heat to something else (the air). It’s being hampered by how shitty the two materials plastic and air involved are at doing this job but that isnt the whole story! We havent even talked about surface area or thermal mass!
The chip could effectively conduct away more of its heat if it were bigger. If you have a one inch square chip it can only radiate (I’m playing fast and loose with the words here but all throughout this post I’m actually only talking about conduction, the amount of joules lost to terahertz radiation in a ssd chip is negligible) into the air close to the surface of the 1 square inch chip. If it were three square inches it would be able to heat up three times more air! A heatsink will usually have a knurled surface with fins and other hard to dust features that raise its surface area super high. It’s not uncommon to see a little bitty heatsink with an effective surface area of a foot square!
We can also solve for bigger in a different direction, and imagine a chip with a one inch cubed package size as opposed to one inch square. Now not only do you get to take advantage of the 5x increase in surface area, but you have much more mass to mess with. If it takes one joule of energy generated in the ssd chip die as it recalls futa SpongeBob memes to heat up the normal 1 inch square package surface one degree, the one inch cubed package can take much more bikini bottom dick pics before it heats up one degree. Because it’s bigger. See what I did there? Futa, bigger? Never mind.
That’s called thermal mass.
Oh yeah and I guess in a heatsink there’s usually some kind of conductive material to make a good connection between the package and the heatsink surface. I didn’t talk about that but I’m running out of energy so just imagine a good explanation of why even something not specifically engineered to do the job like ptm is still better than shitty ol microscopic air pockets.
So to recap: the heat is coming from inside the ssd. We want to get it away from the ssd. We can use a big thermal mass with a huge surface area made out of a material that conducts heat really well coupled to the die with some solid or liquid to both reduce the effect a joule of heat generated has on the die temperature and increase the rate at which that heat is conducted into the air.
Adding a heatsink improves literally every part of the math for getting parts cool and if that doesn’t convince you I encourage you to experiment on your own with your hair dryer and see what happens.
E: I didn’t even talk about the duty cycle of the chip getting hot. Unlike your computer cpu which even in a real low pee state still does something, an idle ssd controller is pretty much off (they still fiddle fuck around with blocks and do other dumb shit but they’re consuming less energy than an idling cpu and therefore need to dissipate less heat. The point stands.). It’s only under some load that heat gets generated and needs to be dissipated.
So if you’re just looking through your futa SpongeBob memes folder and having a chuckle the spikes of load are probably not enough to even heat up the heatsink appreciably while transferring your friends usbc futa SpongeBob memes folder on to your ssd would result in the need to rely on the thermal mass of the heatsink and its big surface area and its much better ability to transfer heat into itself from the chip and from itself into the air.
I have an idea, if you get a chance can you post a picture of the inside of the case? I’m looking specifically for the side that you had to put the ssd in.
I’m thinking a thermal pad might couple the ssd to the side panel if it’s close enough and work like the cases on recent macs do…
Can you provide any more information that will help identify the mini pc? I really don’t wanna have to go geoguesser mode on image search to track down that case and point you at a heatsink that will fit.
You have a reply saying that a heatsink won’t fix the problem. That person is deadass wrong.
The problem is that the ssd gets hot when it does stuff. A passive heatsink provides more thermal mass and more surface area with a greater capacity to transfer its heat into the air. That will, 100% improve things.
I am speaking from years of experience when I say the following: a half inch nut from the hardware store superglued to the package (the black “chip”) is enough to extend the functional life of almost every nand storage thing.
The solution is to get that drives chip coupled to a piece of metal.
E: looks like the hnsun fmc-bm02 or fmc-bm20
The other person said heat dissipator. The usual phrasing is heatsink.
Your nvme is gonna have a four digit code like 2280 following the m2 designation. The last two digits indicate the length. If you cannot see the code or look up the product description then you can measure it. If you can’t measure it then you can instead look at the supported nvme form factor documentation for your case and ensure it meets the 2280 constraints. 2280 is the biggest m2 nvme ssd size so if your case supports it you’ll be fine.
Make sure it’ll work by looking first, but five bucks will get you a passive heatsink that will probably keep you in good stead over five minute transfers and twenty bucks will get you one with a little fan on it that will make sure you’re golden even during extended transfers.
Post the case model and I’ll look up what will fit in it with links and also see if there’s a good spot to sneak a fan in.
E: you asked the other person how a heatsink keeps temperatures down. It’s real simple: there’s a chip that gets hot. It gets hot because when It does something heat builds up and when it does a lot of stuff a lot of heat builds up. Heat goes away through several ways but here by radiating into the material around it, the connector, pcb and air. If the air is flowing past the hot chip then the difference in heat between the chip package surface and the cool incoming air is greater than that between the stagnant air that’s being heated up by the chip and more heat from the chip can be dissipated into that cool incoming air. Which is why a fan helps.
Air is a gas and gasses are generally not as good at taking on energy. Which is what heat is, energy. They’re bad at it because the particles of a gas are farther apart than those of a liquid or solid. If you dunked your hot ssd in a liquid like oil or encased it in a solid like aluminum you’d see much better temperatures because the hot chip could transfer its energy in the form of heat to the oil or aluminum much more efficiently because the particles of aluminum wouldn’t have to be at as high of an energized state to impart their energy onto their neighbors as those in the air have to.
A heatsink is slapping a big chunk of solid material (that’s good at transferring heat because it’s a metal, metals are good at transferring heat) on the hot chip to get more heat off the chip faster. They have little fins and crap to make their own transfer of heat to the air more efficient.
TLDR: if you glue a half inch nut to your chip the chip gotta heat that nut up.
Seeing slopsayers and rust aficionados fight in the comments is like coming across a baron and revenant going at it in melee.
Hell yeah.
Yes! I been in the Broadcom world so freshtomato calls it aqm.
Thank you, it was the only one they had in my size but it’s quite nice indeed.